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Thread: 5 Talking Points - Castleford Tigers

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    Default 5 Talking Points - Castleford Tigers

    A look back at yesterday's game, with hardly any doom or gloom.....

    http://www.redvee.net/5-talking-poin...ord-tigers-22/

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    Good summary as always.

    Agree with you fully about the forward situation. I think Taia and Wilkin should be the starting second rows with Thompson/Knowles in at Loose Forward, if needed Knowles can rotate with Roby from there and saves wasting a bench spot on Lee who is ordinary at best. Walmsley/Amor/Douglas plus one other as props with Roby obviously playing at 9 when he is fit. If Peyroux is playing better I would give him the last bench spot to rotate as second row. In my view LMS should not be in the team as he offers nothing, particularly as either a second row or loose forward because he has zero ball playing skills and no rugby brain which means he kills moves as soon as the ball arrives with him. Maybe he could be used as a rotation prop as then he could just drive it which is about the limit of his abilities but even then he isn't the best tackler and gives away a lot of penalties so I'd rather he was completely out of the side.

    In the backs, Lomax if he can get fit I still think he has to play at full back, drop Swift who whilst ok is somewhat error prone and not particularly quick for a winger. Makinson has been great defensively at full back but still think Lomax can offer a lot more in attack. Grace/Percival on one side with Makinson/Morgan on the other for now although Morgan has failed to impress so far so would agree with trialing some of the other youngsters there if he does not improve but probably fair to give him a few more games yet. Fages a definite at 6 and its worth sticking with Smith at 7 for now as we don't have any other realistic options. I was not happy with his signing but he is at least an experienced 7 so should allow Fages (and Lomax when fit) a bit more freedom which I think will balance the team well.

    Overall I'm a lot more optimistic now KC has gone and I think the two performances since his departure reflect very badly on him. It's also telling that most of the players in the squad still performing poorly or yet to impress (LMS, Peyroux, Lee, Smith, Owens, Morgan, etc.) were all his signings or at least granted contract extensions by him. Even the good one he made (Fages) never got the credit or freedom he deserved from KC. Makes you wonder what this side could have been with some better signings than the ones KC made...

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    Good summary as always. I am more positive now, but like all fans we quickly move on to the next game and forgetting our previous performances. With that in mind our vast Wigan improvement followed by a great win against Cas will go up in smoke if we fail to impress (and this time win) against Widnes. If we do I will relax a little more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Nator View Post
    Good summary as always.

    Agree with you fully about the forward situation. I think Taia and Wilkin should be the starting second rows with Thompson/Knowles in at Loose Forward, if needed Knowles can rotate with Roby from there and saves wasting a bench spot on Lee who is ordinary at best. Walmsley/Amor/Douglas plus one other as props with Roby obviously playing at 9 when he is fit. If Peyroux is playing better I would give him the last bench spot to rotate as second row. In my view LMS should not be in the team as he offers nothing, particularly as either a second row or loose forward because he has zero ball playing skills and no rugby brain which means he kills moves as soon as the ball arrives with him. Maybe he could be used as a rotation prop as then he could just drive it which is about the limit of his abilities but even then he isn't the best tackler and gives away a lot of penalties so I'd rather he was completely out of the side.

    In the backs, Lomax if he can get fit I still think he has to play at full back, drop Swift who whilst ok is somewhat error prone and not particularly quick for a winger. Makinson has been great defensively at full back but still think Lomax can offer a lot more in attack. Grace/Percival on one side with Makinson/Morgan on the other for now although Morgan has failed to impress so far so would agree with trialing some of the other youngsters there if he does not improve but probably fair to give him a few more games yet. Fages a definite at 6 and its worth sticking with Smith at 7 for now as we don't have any other realistic options. I was not happy with his signing but he is at least an experienced 7 so should allow Fages (and Lomax when fit) a bit more freedom which I think will balance the team well.

    Overall I'm a lot more optimistic now KC has gone and I think the two performances since his departure reflect very badly on him. It's also telling that most of the players in the squad still performing poorly or yet to impress (LMS, Peyroux, Lee, Smith, Owens, Morgan, etc.) were all his signings or at least granted contract extensions by him. Even the good one he made (Fages) never got the credit or freedom he deserved from KC. Makes you wonder what this side could have been with some better signings than the ones KC made...
    Thanks for reading. I like Swift. He makes a lot of mistakes bringing the ball away from his own line but I don't like the fact that we ask our wingers to do that so much anyway. That's not what they're good at. His try-scoring record is very good. Something like 74 in 102 games or something. And this is a side crying out for pace and he has it once he gets into his running. But of course to get Lomax and Grace in you would think that someone has to go and Makinson has to have the edge over Swift because of his ability to fill the fullback role so well.

    Still, as I said in the piece it is nice to have options at last...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Good summary as always. I am more positive now, but like all fans we quickly move on to the next game and forgetting our previous performances. With that in mind our vast Wigan improvement followed by a great win against Cas will go up in smoke if we fail to impress (and this time win) against Widnes. If we do I will relax a little more.
    Thanks for reading. I fancy us in these next two I must say. If we can't beat Widnes there is something seriously wrong and Leigh have been found out a bit in recent weeks. Plus our lot should be up for it after they made us look silly at their place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen07 View Post
    Thanks for reading. I like Swift. He makes a lot of mistakes bringing the ball away from his own line but I don't like the fact that we ask our wingers to do that so much anyway. That's not what they're good at. His try-scoring record is very good. Something like 74 in 102 games or something. And this is a side crying out for pace and he has it once he gets into his running. But of course to get Lomax and Grace in you would think that someone has to go and Makinson has to have the edge over Swift because of his ability to fill the fullback role so well.

    Still, as I said in the piece it is nice to have options at last...
    All very fair points. I don't dislike Swift but as you say I think if Lomax is fit and one of Makinson/Grace/Swift needs to be dropped to accommodate it would probably be him.

    Main point as you say though is it is nice to be having a conversation about who should be dropped from the team rather than who shouldn't be!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen07 View Post
    Thanks for reading. I like Swift. He makes a lot of mistakes bringing the ball away from his own line but I don't like the fact that we ask our wingers to do that so much anyway. That's not what they're good at. His try-scoring record is very good. Something like 74 in 102 games or something. And this is a side crying out for pace and he has it once he gets into his running. But of course to get Lomax and Grace in you would think that someone has to go and Makinson has to have the edge over Swift because of his ability to fill the fullback role so well.

    Still, as I said in the piece it is nice to have options at last...
    I like Swift to,he give 100% all the time,we will come up with a few errors but as you say his strike record more than makes up for those. What does annoy me at times with him however is being to close to his centre he seems to allways be 2 or 3 yards to close. Hopefully we will soon be able to add Calvin Wellington to the competition for places. I find myself looking forward to games again now and i am interested how much our attack can improve under the guidance of Long who so far is doing a sterling job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    I like Swift to,he give 100% all the time,we will come up with a few errors but as you say his strike record more than makes up for those. What does annoy me at times with him however is being to close to his centre he seems to allways be 2 or 3 yards to close. Hopefully we will soon be able to add Calvin Wellington to the competition for places. I find myself looking forward to games again now and i am interested how much our attack can improve under the guidance of Long who so far is doing a sterling job.
    For me it's not so much him being too close to his centre, it's more that he overruns the play far too often. I have never seen anyone have more passes go behind him in all my life. All he needs to do his hold his run a yard and it would make all the difference.
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    great read. Must be nice to be able to write a wholly positive piece for a change Stephen! I have been wondering about Lomax as a right centre. He has good feet and hands, defends well and possesses a good rugby brain. It would also take some pressure of him physically (less high impact collisions and jumping for high balls). Maybe worth experimenting given our other options down that side. Wilkin, Lomax, Swift could be a good right edge

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    Quote Originally Posted by st.david View Post
    great read. Must be nice to be able to write a wholly positive piece for a change Stephen! I have been wondering about Lomax as a right centre. He has good feet and hands, defends well and possesses a good rugby brain. It would also take some pressure of him physically (less high impact collisions and jumping for high balls). Maybe worth experimenting given our other options down that side. Wilkin, Lomax, Swift could be a good right edge
    I agree it would be interesting to see how he went at centre but I don't see it happening. I think they'll give Morgan every chance to prove himself purely becsuse you'd have to assume he didn't come cheap. Also, playing Lomax there would send a fairly scary message to Fleming and Wellington. But the best player gets the shirt I guess irrespective of what that means for others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chinese Assasin View Post
    Good read mate and I agree with your sentiments on Swift. His scoring record can't be disputed and I think he can be very good at times however I think he's struggling a bit with confidence at the moment (I assume having Morgan/LMS/Peyroux inside you doesn't help) but he didn't look great outside Percival either.

    It gives us options anyway and that's what having a squad is all about.
    It will be interesting to see what effect Morgan can have playing outside of Wilkin instead of LMS or Peyroux when he comes back. If he can get a run of form going that should help Swift who, with the emergence of Grace, looks like he'll have to get used to playing on that right side.

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    I do like Swift, great try scoring record, but I am not sure this contract extension was the best thing for us at present. Grace needs to stay in the side now, we need his pace and x-factor in attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen07 View Post
    It will be interesting to see what effect Morgan can have playing outside of Wilkin instead of LMS or Peyroux when he comes back. If he can get a run of form going that should help Swift who, with the emergence of Grace, looks like he'll have to get used to playing on that right side.
    I think,or at least i hope that with more time with Long coaching the attack that Morgan will come into his own. We have played 10 games and so far he has had 3 different wingers and 3 different 2nd rows, that really can't help things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    I think,or at least i hope that with more time with Long coaching the attack that Morgan will come into his own. We have played 10 games and so far he has had 3 different wingers and 3 different 2nd rows, that really can't help things.
    I hope thats the reason he is looking so out of sorts. He certainly isnt producing any kind of form that would suggest hes the strike centre we thought we were signing. For me, he is looking like he will be back in Australia before the seasons out citing home sickness. He looks distinctly unhappy and his rugby is clearly suffering because of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen07 View Post
    I agree it would be interesting to see how he went at centre but I don't see it happening. I think they'll give Morgan every chance to prove himself purely becsuse you'd have to assume he didn't come cheap. Also, playing Lomax there would send a fairly scary message to Fleming and Wellington. But the best player gets the shirt I guess irrespective of what that means for others.
    I may be trying to fit square pegs in round holes but I have an incling this could be a good solution all round

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chief View Post
    I hope thats the reason he is looking so out of sorts. He certainly isnt producing any kind of form that would suggest hes the strike centre we thought we were signing. For me, he is looking like he will be back in Australia before the seasons out citing home sickness. He looks distinctly unhappy and his rugby is clearly suffering because of it.
    I said exactly the same. He looks very unhappy. He had never even left Australia prior to this move. His girlfriend came over initially with him but then went back to Australia in March and is still there. This is bound to affect him but I would be amazed if he sees the season out.

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    An enjoyable read as always Stephen. Enjoyment enhanced by reading about a notable win.

    Because of your prominent role on this site, I remember that you weren't expecting a win. I ain't got a prominent role but I'll confess I agreed with you. That made Monday all the better. I went along looking forward to the game not necessarily expecting too much but with a bit of hope in my heart (I'm not a Liverpool fan but I don't mind pinching their song) and just thoroughly enjoyed myself. I enjoyed the game, I enjoyed the atmosphere (I made my voice sore) and I enjoyed the win. Unfortunately, I'm not the best reader of the game and find it hard to remember the finer detail. I just chuffing well enjoyed it! Who'd have thought? You can go to games and not clock watch, sigh, tut and generally feel bored. I seem to remember something like that in the past...!

    Incidentally, YG has it spot on about Swift. Stop him overrunning and he'll make less mistakes and score more. Reacher's comments on Morgan also explain a few things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I said exactly the same. He looks very unhappy. He had never even left Australia prior to this move. His girlfriend came over initially with him but then went back to Australia in March and is still there. This is bound to affect him but I would be amazed if he sees the season out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    An enjoyable read as always Stephen. Enjoyment enhanced by reading about a notable win.

    Because of your prominent role on this site, I remember that you weren't expecting a win. I ain't got a prominent role but I'll confess I agreed with you. That made Monday all the better. I went along looking forward to the game not necessarily expecting too much but with a bit of hope in my heart (I'm not a Liverpool fan but I don't mind pinching their song) and just thoroughly enjoyed myself. I enjoyed the game, I enjoyed the atmosphere (I made my voice sore) and I enjoyed the win. Unfortunately, I'm not the best reader of the game and find it hard to remember the finer detail. I just chuffing well enjoyed it! Who'd have thought? You can go to games and not clock watch, sigh, tut and generally feel bored. I seem to remember something like that in the past...!

    Incidentally, YG has it spot on about Swift. Stop him overrunning and he'll make less mistakes and score more. Reacher's comments on Morgan also explain a few things.
    Thanks again for reading. I don't think many posters on here were expecting a win given the form we've been in and the fact that they had been thrashing teams. And they had an easier time of it on Good Friday than we did. But of course the other great thing about following a sport apart from the entertainment levels is its ability to surprise. Nothing is certain in sport. Oh...and I'm wrong quite regularly. It's a ploy I use when we really need a win....

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Nator View Post
    All very fair points. I don't dislike Swift but as you say I think if Lomax is fit and one of Makinson/Grace/Swift needs to be dropped to accommodate it would probably be him.

    Main point as you say though is it is nice to be having a conversation about who should be dropped from the team rather than who shouldn't be!
    I would not say that if Lomax is fit that he automatically gets back into the team.
    He may have to bide his time on the subs bench filling in when injuries crop up in a game.
    As a back on the bench he would also be able to cover the interchange hooker role.

    I think you have to reward people who have earned the Jersey, rather than picking favourites. This should apply to Lomax as much as any other player.
    If Swift or Grace or Makinson have a poor game then, that's where you slot in the replacement.
    It's not true competition for places if you are only holding the role until a star returns.

    If we had gone with that attitude in the past then you could argue that players like Cunningham and Wellens would never have made it as they were only filling in at the start for more experienced players who were injured. (I seem to recall in Cunningham's situation he was a 2nd, or 3rd choice hooker).

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    For me it's not so much him being too close to his centre, it's more that he overruns the play far too often. I have never seen anyone have more passes go behind him in all my life. All he needs to do his hold his run a yard and it would make all the difference.
    This is 1 of my gripes with him too. It doesn't matter who his centre is or on which side he plays, he does it all the time. His try scoring record is quite decent but without analysis I don't know if it's better against the top teams or the lower teams? I don't recall too many match winners in big games? Added to that he is guaranteed to drop the ball coming out of our 20 when under pressure.

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